E126: SAW X (2023) | Spoiler Review & Discussion

Slashing Cast be hunding master, could be anything, something to make you scream, something you've never seen, cut lacking knife you snare, could be some meat you wish you'd never been chosen for the slash Your seed streams, phills west and take back the Slasher has no doubt they'll go around till Make Every Death Count? What's happened in lovers? What's going on? We're going to get tropical? Were gonna get tropical. Welcome back to another episode of Make Every Death Count, brought to you by the slash Cast podcast Network. We are your host. My name is Nick, My name is Riley. Here with episode number one hundred in two. I don't I don't know. We're in the hundies. This is technically season three of Make Every Account, by the way, but it's also kind of season for you know, it's a mess, also like season like twenty Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you were to say that there's a new season every time we stop and come back, we're on like season fourteen. Yeah yeah. We were actually on a heads for a little bit. One since the last episode. I had a baby. Okay, he actually but then this episode comes out, it'll be his month birthday one month since he was born. Wow. Wow, So that's been pretty hectic. But then we also got suspended on Spreaker. Yeah, so funny story. Funny story, I might, like, right in the middle of the whole, you know, given birth thing, I got my card got hacked, my debit card got hacked, and so you know, I you know, I shut it off. So all my subscriptions were canceled. One of them was Spreaker. Well, Speaker kept emailing me saying, oh, your payments not going through, Your payments not going through. It was like over and over and again. I'm like, I'll get to it when I get to it, all right, and I'm working on a dad but then they suspending us to spend on our account for spam like activity, My motherfucker, you're the one spam in me. What do you mean? I mean, that's where it's gotta be. What it is like, it's just pining in their system that there's a million emails going out. It's like, I'll get to it. So then I and it's funny because I couldn't sign in to our account because it was suspended, so I had to go into my other Spreaker account. Tell them, Hey, my other account was suspended for no reason, please fix it. And then yeah, and they finally did, so they hit us with the yeah, that's our bad. Sorry you couldn't sorry you couldn't you know, make money or do anything. I mean, we don't make money, but yeah, not not on the podcast, but like in theory, like, oh yeah, we just took away potential livelihood there. Yeah, if you actually were a full time podcast, right, we're not. We get like twenty bucks a year really, I mean, we don't run any sponsors on here. We have ads because of Spreaker, but we don't run any sponsorships at all. Yeah, although if you want me to plug it, I could plug our ambassador code for g fuel. They have some horror flavors out. Use coach slash cast to check out for twenty percent off our Fangoria code. If you want to skial a dis kind of Fangoria, twenty percent off coach slash cast and check out. That's where everything on fangoria, by the way, which is nice because they have a bunch of old issues available right now too. So yeah, if you're a horror fan, you're not subscribed to Fangoria totally unrelated to us. You like, if you want to use a code or not, that's up to you, but you should be subscribed to Fangoria. Yeah, I think that's it. For sponsorships. Sponsorships, those are those are a filial links. It's a little bit different. Ah, there you go. All right, So that's that's this episode. Yeah, this episode where we were reviewing Saw X. It is going to be a spoiler review. But it just came out technically today, but you know, pre screenings, early screenings were yesterday. It's a prequel. It's a direct sequel technically, nay, between Saw one and Saw two. It's where it falls. It's it Saw one point five. Yeah, prequel, kind of a sequel, that kind of thing. And the whole story is like completely separate from the Saw movies. Really, what it does is it spotlights Tobin Bell, which is what makes it great. Right, We're following John Kramer. He's going through, you know, trying to get better from cancer. And we all know John Kramer has cancer and that's kind of how this whole thing kicked off him becoming Jigsaw because he learned the importance in life and we tried to kill himself and he failed. He's like, you know what, I think more people in the world should be in a situation that's like life or death, and they're all right in the verge of death and they pull through and to find the importance in life, which a weird way to justify not killing people. But he doesn't kill people. He does though they made they made a choice. Yeah, okay, I mean it's yeah, I feel like if you if you think Jigsaw were to be charged in court in real world, like gets homicide. Yeah all right, so okay, yeah, yeah, take a drink. Every time in the soft franchise you hear the word choice or game or game yeah yeah, yeah, choice and game. He would shit face all the words he needs. It's the only game, the only rules, only drinking game. Rules. You need rules. Yeah, and you can make a hell with drinking game with so easily. I mean, anytime you see the puppet, which isn't that much in this movie, its like only once, really technically three times. Well it's the same spot every time, though, isn't it. No, he moved so he comes out on the tricycle, but then like that, like that's it, right, that's the only time we see him. Just in that spot the rest of the movie, No, because then he spun around. It's fun around, yeah, like he's facing the other direction, and at the end maybe he's still in the same spot. So too so because he brings out the tray the tray. Yeah, and then towards the end of the movie we see him spun around from where he was do you ever think, when watching especially like this one in particular because it takes place in a building that is not his building, like it's the building of the people or the fake doctors, how does he manage to build all this shit so fast? He's good. I was thinking to the whole movie, I'm like, dude, how did you prep all of this? And then like so in my head, I'm thinking, like, dude, you're you're taking so long to prep all these traps and it's a ton of work. And then you're adjusting this building again that's not yours that you didn't build from the ground up, and you're making these like poison traps and chain traps and all this crazy shit. Why did you go out of your way to also make you where the puppet would wheel itself out with the tray held just brought the tray over there and same result. Yeah. I mean, I think some time had to have passed from where he decided he was going to take not revenge, he was going to teach them a life, and then actually them getting there because they were in Mexico. Yeah, and his help was not in Mexico. That's right, that's yeah. Okay, okay, Let's talk about the plot real quick before we go into like all these boilers, because yeah, John is roughly three months away from dying of cancer. He finds out through a friend that used to be in a support group, a cancer support group, that there's this experimental like trial happening outside of the United States. Ends up being in Mexico, where this like legendary doctor's daughter is has this like crazy care to cancer that big Pharma doesn't want people to know about because it costs a bunch of money, so experimental case has to be on the down low. So he gets pulled into to Mexico and you know, he's he's got to pay separately. It was like quarter million dollars he has had to pay to do it. They have it where it looks like he was kidnapped just to keep the location hidden all this stuff. So it turns out that the whole thing was a con. They make it look like he's going through brain surgery when it was actually just a DVD playing, and they completely conned him out of his money. And this is how this lady who apparently her dad is legit I think, yeah, I think that is the word. Her dad is legit, But she's using his name to con people a lot of money. Yeah, which how does he not know about at this point? Because you would think every single person that got conned would be like, all right, I gotta because he's in hiding, is what they said. But that's what you would contact, right, Yeah, but they're all dead well now and die instantly, you know. But yeah, so once that happens, it turns into a revenge movie kind of. Yeah. It's John Kramer in between Solid one and Solid two teaming back up with Amanda, with Shawnie Smith who has returned in this movie as well, and they're just getting collecting all these people that were involved and putting them in traps and letting them fight for their lives. Yeah, that's in a nutshell, that's the whole movie. It is, just it's a revenge story. And so going into this movie. I didn't have high hopes. The reviews came out, we saw some reviews drop and people were like, this is Some people have said it's the best in the franchise. Some people said it's the best with the after the original or Saw too. So my hope stop went up a little bit with that. But the trailers always seemed to me where it was it was gonna be a fun movie, but it's not going to add anything to the franchise, And I'm I think that's exactly what it is. Yeah, I did not. I stayed away from all trailers. The only thing I watched with that first ever like teaser like thirty forty seconds on Twitter or whatever with Shawnie Smith, is that the one who revealed her No, she didn't even see that, No, but I but obviously, you know, I heard that she was going to be as Amanda, But I didn't watch any other trailers. So really I had no idea what this fucking movie was about. Yeah, and it was. Yeah, it was definitely a good time. Yeah it's simple. But what makes it special and why people or I think they're liking it so much, is that Tobin Bell was meant to be the face of this franchise, Like he's the one that makes it work. It's the bad guy. It's none one of those types of franchise where the bad guys the star. So the sequels were struggling to succeed so much because you know, Hoffman was great. Okay, we like Amanda, sure, but like Tobin Bell, John Kramer, that was Saw and there's just something very special about Tobin Bell. So to go back in time a bit, put us in between the two of the best one. I think Saw one and Saw two are the best. So to take a movie, put it in between those, and you're like right into that lore I think is really smart and really cool, and that's what makes the movie work because although he's a bad guy, you always feel for him exactly. Yeah, you're kind of like, do I agree with you? Because he's just so sad. He's like I'm dyeing a cancer. Yeah, and then he always gives people a chance, like there's so many times in this movie because a man, this is supposed to be like a transitional phase for Amanda, so between like Saw one and Saw two where she's still learning the ropes of taking over for John and like putting herself in the mentality. So you'll see moments where she doesn't want to hurt somebody. There's a character Gabriella, she doesn't want to hurt because of a drug issue she has which she can relate to, which Amnic can relate to, and so she doesn't want to hurt her or John says, no, no, she made a choice, all right, drug, drug abuse or not. She made a choice, and she's got a face that and see how she handles it. And then at the same time, you have the big hoss what is her name, Cecilia. Yes, yeah, she's like the big enemy of the movie, and Amana just wants to outright kill her. Doesn't deserve a chance. But John even says then it's like, hey, everybody deserves a chance of redemption. Yeah. She's like, oh yeah, yeah John, yeah right, yeah, so yeah, he's usually the enemy, right, but in this movie they managed to create a bigger enemy. And then when they do, like, you already hate them, right, you already hate uh Cecilia, Yes, you already hate her because of the way she conned John and the way she's conning these cancer patients. Like that's already bad enough, right, But then they go full dark with her, Like you get to the point where the tables turn a bit and Cecilia is out of her trap, and then she puts John into a trap and Amanda into chained up and you're like, damn, Like that's that's bad enough, right, But then she has no problem taking a innocent child, like under the age of ten, I was just playing soccer out in the field of the building, bringing him in there and had no problem killing him. Yeah. It went from you're gonna die to your own trap John too. Okay, it's a choice, Yeah, you or this kid. You get to decide, because that's how the trap was built. Yeah, she just has no problem being an absolute psychopath. Then she was saying the whole time, like honestly, every time you killed somebody, I was like relieved because that's one last person I got split the money with. Yeah. And even during the the rest of the games, you know, she was like directing them on how to survive Slash do it do play the game? Yeah. Yeah, she was constantly pushing there was like you gotta do it, you gotta do it, And which is why I think her a little character turn is a little out of place from what we saw the rest of the movie because she was trying to help. It seemed the whole time. The only one that was a little substomy was Gabriella because her trap. We can talk about that right now, because I was so confused on the decision she made, because they what they did with her is that she had a chain on her foot and a chain on her hand, and she was hung up. One was pulling her down to the floor, one was pulling up to the up to the ceiling, and she's up there. What they like, they said, radiation, But it was just like a fucking heat like a flamethrower, that's whatever whatever, like a like a giant propane Yeah, a giant propane tank. Yeah, that's exactly what it looks like. Yeah. So she's in front of that and she's got that blowing under her face, and then Cecilia tells her to go for her foot first so that she'll swing out of the way, which I mean, okay, that did happen, But why would you go for your foot first. You should just break your hand and fall to the floor. The thing was that for a pain tank was put in the air. Yeah, so mounted to the ceiling, yeah, So why wouldn't you not just drop out of there? Because ye go to the floor because she broke out her foot and swung out of the way and then the machine just wings. Yeah, would it fall you to the floor too? Probably? If even if it did, you can walk now, you can walk around the chain had it was loose, Yeah, I don't know. That's that was one of those every Saw movie there's a couple of traps where you just you are like, wow, you could easily just do this and get out of that. I just do this one little thing. I can saw two for example, when the one girl goes into the trap where the syringe is inside of the box and in the cups there's it's a little blade, so you can't come back down without cutting your hand. Just put one hand in, grab the shringe, take your other hand, open the blades back up, and come back down. It's like easy, one done. Why do you need two hands to grab the ship? What were you doing? Yeah? Because she had put one hand in and like then it lifted the needle up and she goes, oh shit, put her hand on the other side, like should have been like yeah, just open the cup and you're done. And no injuries, so that happens. Oh, Stormy always making her If you ever watched the video version of the show, if you're a member on YouTube, you get to see Stormy all the time in the show because she just likes to come in get her camera time. If you're listening and don't know who Stormy is, she's a She's my dog, a black pug, adorable, probably the cutest damn thing you'll ever see. But she just likes to have her presen stone and subordinate. But yeah, so that was one trapper. I was like, you could definitely get out of it. She did survive temporarily. Oh then she yeah, Cecilia kills her. Yeah, that's what kicks it all off, because Cilia is like, yeah, you think I care about her because they were John was trying to get her to go to the hospital. She's like, she got interest. She won the game. Yeah she did it. She did a good job. But yeah, she's like, yeah, I don't care. It just snaps her neck. Yeah, oh damn. And then she's willing to kill a child. Yeah yeah. But then this leads to a whole trap where John and this kid are put down into a table with the they both can reach a switch that tilts the table one way or the other and blood starts pouring down like they're being waterboarded. And John was intentionally pulling you know, the table down, so the blood would go into his mouth and he would drown and Carlos the kid would survive. Well, they both of them had so much freedom to move their head where they could like actually like look down at the other person, to lift their head and looking at it. Just turn your head, yeah, like because it wasn't like a giant puddle. It was just like a straight line of blood pouring out of a tube. Dude, Just yeah, my shower has more of a a direction than that, Yeah, like a wider range there. Just turn your head out of the way and you're not drowning anymore. Yeah, crazy, Yeah, this is one of those things. Well. Yeah, and how they got into that situation is, you know, a part of the plan. Yeah. So it's a it's a bit of a stretch like all saw movies are, but it's all right. Yeah, Like this basically Cecilia's boy toy, who was in on the plan to con out John of his money. He was not able to be found by the detective we'll talk about that in a second. But the detective that John called to find everybody that was part of this scheme couldn't find that one person. So they had to trick Cecilia into calling him and bringing him to the building, and that's what they did. So their whole plan was to get him there, set him up, and then they would put it was supposed to be John and Amanda into this table trap, end up being him and Carlos because she's evil bitch, And then it led to them going to grab the money that they thought was there, and then it activates another trap and it kills both of them. Actually, well, Celia lives technically technically she lives. I mean she was able to put her head out of the way the poison. Yeah. So but yeah, her boy toy, Parker I think was his name. Yeah, he's gone. She's staying. She killed him. Yeah, So that was all part of the plan, which I was thinking that the whole time. Yeah, I wasn't. I actually wasn't, and I wasn't really sure. Well, the second I knew Parker was bad, I knew that their plan was to get trapped, So I knew that much. I just wasn't sure how we were didn't get there, but okay, because it was just the way he was acting. It was a little too it was too jigsaw. He just seems so comfortable, is it. Yeah yeah, oh yeah, no problems. Pop this chain on, no problem, you don't have to do this. I was also thinking with the gun, the gun, I knew that ship wasn't loaded. The entire time, He's like, yeah, we're gonna lock away your gun, and then he goes to the cabinet that's already open, opens it, puts the gun in, closes, it turns the key, pulls the key out in the door open. Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't know if that was continuity or if that was just like just that's what was intended. Yeah, shitty little locker they got there. Yeah, but I knew that thing wasn't loaded though, because like, why would he ever do that? He's not stupid. He did a little bit more advanced. I thought he would what he did as he removed the gunpowder from the actual ammunition. Yeah, so that if Parker were to check the gun, he would see that there's still bullets in it. But yeah, interesting, Yeah, but saw X in a nutshell, pretty fun ride. There are some pros and cons. Wait, what do you think is the worst part of this movie? I don't know. I mean just because it's slow doesn't make it bad. Yeah, it wasn't really that slow. It starts off a little well, I guess, but you're really just you're getting to know the like John Kramer, not just the Jigsaw Killer, right. The first Yeah, and the first act there's there's no real deaths. There was one vision that had of a trap that he would have trapped someone in, and then he snaps back to reality. I hope, there goes gravity and the and then he scares the guy and he doesn't commit the crime that he then was going to put him in the trap. Four So I was like, yeah, I was like, this whole movie better not be a fucking just day fantasy. Yeah, you're gonna wonder how often he does that where you see someone doing some shady ship and then he has a whole vision how he's gonna torture them, right Jesus. Yeah, and then you know we get into the actual figuring out the the treatment, going to Mexico, going through the treatment, Yeah, and then finding out it's a scam. And then we started getting to the actual the carnage. Some brutal shit in this movie, though, I mean somebody. Well, first of all, the fantasy was pretty brutal. You'll stamped on the fingers, sucking eyeballs out. You have the leg being cut off. You have the head being cut off. Yeah, the head being cut off. You have the like little makeshift brain surgery moment where the dude's gotta cut into his own skull and remove his own brain tissue. You Gabriella have to break her own hand, her own ankle and wrists to get out, and then be burned the whole time. Yeah. The brain, the guy with the brain, he failed, and then it heat it up, coils and then smash his face. Yeah. Man, they got so close, both of those. I thought, when what's her face? I cut off her leg when she was getting so close to succeeding. Why the way you already caught your leg? Do you really need to make them stuck out their bone marrow too? Like good grief man, grief man. But she got so close that I thought they were gonna let her live. I thought this movie was gonna making everyone in this movie live and just sit with their bad. Yeah decision, well their choice choice. I thought I was gonna result in everybody living, but now just the last second, she fails and dies. And then the same guy with the head again put his brain into dissolve. It was like it almost gave me like vibes of like this isn't even possible. It takes so damn Like he already he did the actual thing in less than three minutes, Like he cut open his fucking skull and pulled out brain tissue in less than three minutes, but he doesn't get the victory because it took too long to dissolve the brain tissue, right, it's like shitty. Same with the chick with the bone marrow, Well, it was interesting because because yeah, the girl with the chopped off her leg with the bone marrow, it was so close. I mean, it couldn't have been any closer. And then the second one, No, there was still a while to go. Like I thought all of them were gonna be down to the wire, but yeah, but no, it kind of was kind of down to the wire. I mean there were still probably thirty seconds left of dissolving left. I don't know, I wouldn't know. Yeah, yeah, and then yeah. Then Gabrielle, she she won, she won her game. Yeah, but she has some brutal scarring probably, but you know her neck cut snapped. Well yeah, she's yeah, shame And I was thinking though, seeing these people, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know how much the actual human brain can put themselves through. But cutting off your own leg and actually cutting through the femur, going all the way through your thigh like that, is that even possible? Can you sit there with no anesthesia, I know, no sort of pain removal. Can you actually even handle that much pain and not pass out? And then will your brain even allow you to keep going? That's where people like you can't drown yourself even if you want to. You can't do it because your body won't let you. Your brain will not let you drown yourself like that. So yeah, like, is that even possible to just keep cutting through your damn leg like that without any pain medication or your actual fucking skull? Yeah? Well yeah he did so well too. I know he's a vet, but that guy all he couldn't see he was looking through a camera and had to go like this, you know, with a drill to cut open his skull and he made like a perfect circle, pulled it out with with tweet the teasers and ship Yeah, dropped it on the floor. Yeah, dude. I laughed in the theaters and when he dropped on the floor, I was like, yeah, we're done with that. I guess we never want our skull back. It was just funny. He just tosses on the floor. Yeah, and then he ripped out part of his brain. Yeah, almost looked at it or looked at it. Definitely looked at in the camera and it was like, Okay, it needs to go in here now. That wouldn't really hurt, though, would it Like that that part I can kind of get behind like you probably could by the time you get to your brain. If you're just grabbing your brain, that's like purely numb, isn't it. I would I don't know about this, depending on what part, what part of your brain you're grabbing. It could be your fingers you go to grab your brain, and well, I was that's I was kind of waiting for him to like pull out his brain and then he just shuts down. Yeah, it was like part Yeah, that's too bad. I mean they cut this specific part so that he would cut there on purpose so that he wouldn't just shut down, I guess. But yeah, yeah, he also put so much. I mean that's the thing. You're not told how much brain you need in there. You just got to hope that you put enough in to dissolve and make that shit happen. Yeah, I mean I think he did. Just you know, it wasn't fast enough. Wasn't fastening. You didn't give yourself brain surgery fast enough, you silly goose. Yeah yeah, yeah. Cecilia knew him too. I thought that was interested, like knew of him. Yeah, like you're jig fucking Saw. Yeah, I mean it makes sense that well, so it's really only the events of the first movie, but he still had several cases and he was pretty kind of well renowned. But like she knew who he was before before, I think like she knew that John Kramer was Jigsaw. Yeah, I think she. I think she figured it out when she's in the trap, probably right, otherwise why would you bring him down? Yes, she woke up and realized like this is this sounds like Jigsaw? Yeah, yes, I mean his voice, and then I want to play a game. Then she really knew when the when the puppet came out right, if you've heard of him and you've put all that together, you would know by the end what it is. So yeah, yeah, I was thinking that, man, you think you'd be kind of well known at this point. Uh, how do you have so much money? He paid for that ship? He transferred the money over. Well, he was a civil engineer, civil engineer and architect and yeah, an architect and now I'm a life coat. Yeah, now he just has hobbies. I have hobbies. Do you think she figured it out? Then? No, she didn't, Probably not. She knew the whole time the scam she's running. I mean, we find out how heartless she really is at the end, and she's like straight up a psychopath and will kill anybody she wants, including children. So it makes sense by the end, I was thinking of like, man, this scheme she's running and getting so per personable with the patients she's working with, It's like, how do you even pull this off? It's so easy to scam old people through like phones, right, because those people that are doing those scam calls never see you. It's not it's never personal. They don't know you, so they're they're just you know, they're scamming a nobody to them. It doesn't mean anything to them. It's still fucking shitty. Yeah, it hates scams, but to do what she's doing is so evil. Yeah, I mean she walked, she introduces herself, talks with them, walks them through the facility, introduces them to the staff, Which, why why would you do that? You gotta be thorough, I guess, gotta be thorough with your scams. You know the credit scene. Yeah, everyone was talking about the after credit scene for this movie. Mid credit scene. Yeah, mid credits scene. So I had a guess pretty quickly what it was. When John goes onto the phone, he's like, dedictive, I'm gonna need you to pull these people up, pull them up, them up. I'm gonna need you to pull these people ups. He said detective and without any other name. I was like, Okay, of course it's gonna be often. But yeah, then we get to that mid credit scene, and I always think, also thinking the whole movie, I was like, man, the guy, the guy that tricked him from his cancer support group had to be a part of it, because he told a whole story about how he got cured, Like he had to be a part of it. It turns out he was that. The mid credit scene is the Hoffman and John capturing that guy and bringing him to the classic bathroom that we know, which we didn't see because weren't paying close of attention. Apparently the foot's in there, Yeah, and I imagine Adam's body is in there probably which dope. Yeah, So I don't know if that really confirms anything. They the director said, there's no plans. Writers and directors said, there's no plans for a sequel, but we'll gauge the room, gauge the walllet you know, yeah, because it's doing well. So and it's doing so well because you have you actually get to see John Kramer Tobin Bell again and doing personable things, I guess. And the thing is, you only do this so long, right, Like how many movies can you take place in between one and two? Yeah, you can kind of sneak between two and three and start playing around in that field. But he you know, he dies, Yeah, we see him die les less. Yeah, unless he somehow magically well, they tried that. They tried this ship before. This whole franchise since like Saw five has been working around Tobin Bell being daddy. Yeah, it's been it's been working around, like, how do we bring him back? Yeah, we'll do flashbacks, We'll keep his voice in the tapes. We'll do that. He had plans ahead of time, so all this shit we go through it, we go through jail, we go through his wife, all these things. Yeah, we could probably see at least one, maybe two more films with him alive. Yeah, yeah, probably, dude, this is it's crazy this movie or this franchise has ten movies. Yeah. It did almost feel like a like a ending, like a ride off into the sunset. Literally he walked into the sunset. Yeah. I was actually it had such a because with the green background that happens there, it felt similar to the original, which had to be intentional, and I was waiting to hear something like something like that and the closing the door. But yeah, it was a peaceful moment walking out with Carlos. Carlos, John and Amanda walk out literally into the sunrise and then saw X and then the credits start to roll. Yeah, kind of kind of a weird title card by both title cards were kind of weird. Yeah, I agree. But yeah, so it did seem like a ride off into the sunset or rise. But I think they could probably get at least one more. Yeah, especially showing Hoffman again, because we didn't really we never saw the start of Hoffman and Kramer's relationship, so you could kind of play around with that. We kind of do, but you could definitely. There's a lot more to expand on there, so you could you could do that. And I was thinking because the second I was like, all right, they're gonna show Hoffman, I was like, man, what does he look like these days? It's been like twenty years fifteen years for him, and it looked the same. I was like, what damn? Then I then I remember I forgot that we met him. We did, Yeah, and it was a dope experience. That was that scare fest. He was really really cool. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was interesting because you know, Tobin Bell, he's older. This movie takes place in between one and two, right, which came out twenty years ago, twenty years ago, so obviously they're gonna look older. And Tobin Bell, yeah, he looks older, but he has he's a cancer patient. He has cancer, so it works. Yeah. He's just like because he's already so broken and saw too, like he could barely talk. He barely move, so you you're you're kind of seeing that Jigsaw, you're seeing that John Kramer, but he just got so much more wrinkles and no hair now. Yeah. So but then Amanda, Yeah, yeah, there were a couple shots where you're like, hey, she looks pretty good. Yeah, and then some were like, oh, yeah, she's there's there's forty years old a man. Yeah, but she still looks fine, Like great, yeah, I'm she's in super good shape still too, so it made it a lot easier for her to just jump back into the roll. But she's just very noticeably older as humans are. Yeah, but you know, whatever, what do you do? Yeah? Her hair though, dude, Like I remember her hair and saw too and it's not good, right, but it's not. It wasn't that bad. Her hair was distractingly bad the whole movie, Like it was like Gaye Weather's bangs and Scream three. I was just like, what are we doing here? Agreed? Yeah, agreed? Yeah. And then Hoffman, Yeah, he looked the same. Maybe, I guess I went back and watched you know, I'm sure there was a little more weight in his I don't know. Yeah he was. Then he talked and that voice is still sexy as fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd like to see some more movies with him. I liked Hoffman. I just it's it's so hard for that franchise to work without Tobin Bell being the center of all of it. And they knew that and that's why they did Saw X the way they did. Yeah, but now it's it's starting to get confusing. We're starting to get into like the crazy timelines of Halloween and F thirteen even or text sames some masker where we're all over the place and what order you need to watch this ship because Jigsaw and Spiral and it's a lot pretty yeah yeah where yeah, do we go forward in time? Do we go backwards in time? Yeah? You promptly? I don't know. I kind of like the idea of picking up right where we left off with the mid credit scene. Yeah, because we're at this point, there's only a few months left in John Kramer's life, so you right leading up to and we don't know how much time passed for him to set up everything in Mexico, right, Yeah, well, yeah, it had been a couple of months. Then he has like a month to live or well for him to actually set up everything. It was probably like, realistically two years, but in the movie it was it was like two days. Probably all day it was. It certainly felt like the next day because we followed we we go the week. No, I don't know if he goes a whole week before he takes a bandage off and realize it's a scam. Yeah, it was a yeah, a couple of days. Yeah. So then they next thing, you know, Amanda's there, and that's because he never left Mexico, right, No, So where was he saying? So it had to be within those seven days, right, probably? Yeah, I wonder where he was staying. But but yeah, and then yeah, he told he had his detective to track people down, pull them up, and then Amanda to take him out, so they had to she had to get to Mexico. Yeah. And then yeah, then how long after does that mid credit scene take place? After the walk into the sunrise? Yeah? And how long before that he saw too? Yeah? I mean he's he's supposed to he said three months to live ish, So yeah, we gotta we're gonna do another one. It's gotta be like right after, do you mind as well? I would be happy to start the next one. Literally in the bathroom on that trap with that guy. I mean, if we're gonna run a direct sequel to the original timeline and just completely split, I mean, yeah, I might as well pick right up after and now, John Kramer, you were the last patient of this company. She survived, She survived, Yeah, she could be out for revenge and he's doing his thing and everything gets mixed up. I was waiting for her when she put her head through the hole to breathe. I was just waiting for like another thing to come and cut her her head. Like I guess out of all the people, I guess this one doesn't need to survive. Well, the two of them, they made a choice. John survives. Yeah, she made that choice. But yeah, she's still alive. So obviously she's gonna try to come after him, so might as well do it before you know, he dies. Yeah. God, if you really start to elaborate on that story and it gets like super intense where it's very like she goes after Amanda or whatever, it's like, where the hell was all this shit before I saw two? Good? Good grief. Man, you start to mess with the time online a lot. You're already cutting in real close, right, now messing with the timeline. So, yeah, you know the whole scam thing that I have a couple of questions about the scam. I think I just have a couple of suggestions to make it work a little bit more thoroughly. One, if you're already taking these people, these cancer patients, you know, into a different country, you're bringing them into surgery with all this very professional looking surgical equipment, and you're willing to totally fuck with them and lie to them and show a DVD tape of like surgery tutorials. Basically, why not just actually get them a scar? Yeah? Why not cut them open? You're you're you purchase anesthesia, like you have done these things to be thorough Just just fucking put a get of a scar so that when he takes his bandage off, it doesn't figure it out right away and he's not on your ass, right, there's an actual scar there. Yeah, so they assume that you're they actually got proper surgery. Yeah, it's like, why don't what the hell man? This this scam could be so much more their own rather than just relying on them to not take their bandages off a week so you can get the hell out of dodge. Yeah, and then they take their bandages off after yeah, a week or yeah, it was just it was literally a week. Yeah, he took his bandage off and then oh wow, it was good. There's no scar even like, yeah, you shave my head. Apparently they didn't. Well, and that was He's the one example. It's brain surgery. Most people are looking at like, you know, the pancreatic cancer and things like that. Yeah, where you can see the damn scar like you're playing me. That was nothing, the pancreatic scar, that cancer where that tricked. That tricked Tobin Bellachick, the trick John Kramer. He shows miss scar And that's kind of really how it makes it work. Very risky, like you gotta be you gotta have some great makeup on for somebody like John Kramer not to notice that your scar is fake. Right, So that was other risk. I was like, man, what are you doing? There's you have so many other strategies to make this thing work. I mean yeah, maybe he was just looking through rose colored glasses. Yeah, he's like, why this worked for you? No question, no more questions. Yeah, I mean yeah, that's what happened, right, That's what they're because they're just using hope as bait. They're using your hope. But yeah, that's the lack of a scar thing is because really what that was was to fool the audience, not full of John. So yeah, it would be nice. I just if I was running a scam like this, I would probably actually give him a scar so I could have more time. And then they leave all the equipment behind. That's one hundreds of thousand dollars equipment. They're just leaping behind every time. Yeah, but they made eight million dollars in a couple of years. It said eight years. I think eight million and eight years. Yeah, which, by the way, based on our house a little low. That house was like thirty million dollars. And yeah, they had to split it, you're right, Yeah, so I don't know about that one chief, But it really takes out like that's that's all they made because they if you look at the board, like John paid the least amount that I saw there, there was something that paid like four hundred thousand dollars, right, and there were seventeen patients before him. I think it was a total of thirty two thirty two transfers. Oh well, could it could be less patience, I guess, but I think it was thirty two deposits into her bank account. That's still low. Yeah, yeah, still at her house is a lot more than eight million. Yeah, it was a massive back then, back in the day, twenty four four or five. Yeah, maybe maybe. Well, and where was her house? It was in Mexico, right or was that No? No, it was out it was it was a straight about because she had the security and all that, the security, but she was in Mexico too, right, Which was another thing. You're running this huge scam and yet you bought a thirty million dollars house that's driveable distance away from where you're scamming. Is there some things where I'm like, man, you guys seem to do something so thoroughly beautiful, plans, great strategy to scan these dying people, and yet then you blow it elsewhere. Man, what are you doing? Man? Yeah, I have to assume that house in Mexico City, which I guess it could be cheaper. The house could be cheaper there, but still like eight million in the in the grand scheme of thing that's everyone, that's split between everyone. Yeah, the grand scheme of things, ain't million, Ain't that much right, I don't know. I mean I would I would do. I'd kill a man for eight million dollars. I'm just kidding. I would not scam a man. I would scam a man for eight million dollars. Yeah, I mean it. It's pretty well received. It's certified fresh on Rotten Tomatoes eighty seven percent and I got eighty nine for audience score. Yeah, and I think at seven point five seven point six, I think seven point six on IMDb. Yeah, yeah, that's uh. I think that's right about where I would put it for a Saw movie trying. I like Saw a lot, but I know, I mean, I love the original Saw, and Saw two's all right. But yeah, the fact that the critics ninety critic reviews have it certified fresh is for a Saw movie nuts. Yeah. And I think, yeah, right around seven out of ten. I think it's totally a fair school like, that's probably right around where i'd put it. Because Tobin carries a show man. If you can keep getting me Tobe Bell, you can keep making so movies. If you're gonna decide to move all without Tobin again, you can. You can cut the cut, you know, pull the cord right now, man, Pull the block. Yeah, just keep making the torture porn and I won't watch it. Yeah, I watch it. Did you see the article saying that similar to Terrifyer two, people who have had to have vomit bags for this movie for X. Yeah. For I mean there are a couple of gory things like the leg. The leg being cut off can be pretty brutal. I didn't think anything was that bad, No, I mean obviously, like when she was cutting through her leg, my legs started to feel a little funny and breaking the fingers, My fingers started to feel a little funny, but like nothing, Yeah, it was no, it was no bedroom scene terrified too, right, Like, it wasn't anything like that where it was it was gory with the purpose Saw X was. I'll say it wasn't just gory to be gory. And I certainly didn't get queasy at all on par or honestly with the original Wise maybe not. The the original is really not too gory at all. People forget that the Saw franchise didn't become torture porn. Gritty yeah, yeah, gritty, yes, Because if you think all the things you see like Gore Wise and the first Saw, even Saw two isn't too bad. Well, I mean there's like the syringes, but it's not gory. It's just there's a dude like cutting off the skin off the back of his neck. Right, there's stuff like that. When then Donnie, uh is that yeah Saw too where he brings his ankle. Yeah, I mixed on my Saw movies. At the end he breaks his ankle and that's what we reveal, Amanda. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen those movies. I just watched Saw one and two the other day. I didn't watch Saw two again, but I watched the Saw one today. So yeah, we watch and saw the first Saw. Yeah, that hellos up right at the end. Yeah, it's good. It's cool. Game over, Game over, Yeah, it's almos. It's funny because the sliding door, like you think TCM right, but that moment is almost just as iconic Game over, Yeah, I mean yeah, the Saws with the twists, they're good, they're good. Yeah. The thing is he Yeah, every Saw a movie in some way, shape or foremasts have a twist so that you can play hello Zepp and play the theme and they're like, oh my god, here's the big reveal and this movie made it so much harder to pull that off, but they did. Yeah, they pull off some sort of twisty element. Yeah. I don't know where I rank it at this time, but I do. I'm ready for a rewatch. I don't think it's better than Saw two. Still, I still think Saw two is better, but I it's probably after Saw two as far as like better. Yeah, but like personally, I don't know. I might have it above Saw Too, depend on the day. I don't know yet. I think I think if Shawnee had the same hair she had and Saw Too, i'd put it I've Saw Too. That would be perfect. Yeah, definitely, Uh, definitely met my expectations. Yeah, Yeah, it was good. It was good. It was good. It's certainly better than Saw three, four, five. You could argue six if you want, but I think it's better than six. It's a hell of a lot better than seven. It's better than Jake Saw, It's better than Spiral. So yeah, I mean it's right there with Saw one and Saw two. Yeah, I'm saying something be an interesting little trilogy there. Yeah, one x two. I feel if you watch them all back to back to back, then you're gonna really notice the age, you're gonna be like, wait a minute, oh my love, just now we're back. But yeah, that's all X. I think the scores are accurate. If you haven't seen it, sorry we spoiled the whole thing for you, but I try to tell you, Yeah, you should have watched it. It's still worth watch. Yeah, it's good, it's good, it's good. Definitely go check it out you haven't already. And this kind of thing where go see it and the you know, support good horror movies, go see them in theaters so that we can get more good horror movies. Yeah, we got the writers strike over. Yeah, that's gonna get SAG and yeah, I just gotta get SAG and that's not looking up. Yeah, SAG is a little bit trickier because of AI, yes and etc. Yeah I'm glad the writers got a good deal though. Yeah. Yeah, I think they're working on attentive agreement right now. And then yeah, I still gotta be voted on. But I think most people in the writer's guild, they're usually not super rich people, right right. They tend to be working their ass off for not that much money, which is why a deal like this needs to happen. So I think if they're actually saying that the deal is good as they're saying, it's actually as good as they're saying, I think they'll vote that thing in no time. Yeah, then it's just sag. Then it's just sag yeah, which could be wow. Yeah, but they're not. I mean a lot more pressure now with with the Writer's Guild making their deal. It's a lot more pressure on sex. So always something happens. But that saw X will be back next week with what does anything come out to Me? Now? Next week because we'll be covering The Exorcist, which I think that's October sixth Oh is it? Something's October six? But then we're also gonna be covering five Nights of reddis we all should We could review The Exorcist itself before the Exorcist Believer, because it's the fiftieth anniversary of the Exorcist as well. It sure is, And I'm one who isn't a die hard Exorcist fan. I respect the hell out of that movie, but not a huge Exorcist guy. Yeah, naff. We could go see the Nune two. Oh all right? So, oh and I got to rewatch the Nun one and I don't wanna. Is it Nune two getting shit reviews? I don't know. Actually I didn't think it was. I thought it was doing better than the first one, But I might be wrong. The None two is fifty what's the audience say? Seventy three? And it's got a five point nine out of ten. Maybe that's pretty bad. Five point nine's pretty bad. We'll see. Maybe maybe I just don't want to watch the first one again. It's really bad. Yeah, all right, Well that's gonna wrap this episode of Make Every Death Count. You're not followed or subscribe if you're listening to do so. If you want to see the video version of the show, you become a member for as low as two dollars on the YouTube channel. That's pretty much it. Follow us on discord on X I was gonna say Twitter, and then I was like, I don't want to say Twitter. I need you say the other thing. But then instead of saying X, I said discord, but join the Discord, just Scord dot gg, Forward, slash slash gas, and also follow us on x at slash gas and wherever the hell else you want to really care, We're on Instagram, just haven't posted there. And like since nam yeah, run threads and posted there since noam. Yeah. But these social media platforms are there. We're on what's it called slasher, It's called Slasher. There's some horror one. I think fangory is making one. I've heard, have you you've seen the emails? No, I think fangory is making their own social media exclusively for members. Oh, I haven't lived into it so much. Bout all the emails? Interesting? All right, Well that's it, as I always, thank you guys so much listening and we'll talk to you next time. Bye. Well, well, well, would you look at that you survived all of the crazy and deadly shenanigans that the Slash and Cast podcast network through with you today. Since you made it this far, consider leaving a five star review and make sure you share this show with your creepy friends. Until next time, horror friends, stay safe and more importantly, stay scared. I want to hear you, squeen